Vibrantly Healthy Marriages and Homes – Panel Discussion

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Moderator Ken Miller

(00:03) Brothers and sisters, let me introduce to you Donald and Mary Ann Brechbill. Let me introduce to you Mark and Ann Brubaker. Finally, Merle and Edith Burkholder, please come up here. Now, my dearest, please. Ken and Linda Miller. So, please remain standing, please. I’ve been looking forward to this time very much. I’m not sure why.

(00:55) I think it was I think it’s because of something that someone said just at the beginning as we were praying together. She said, “You know, it’s so good to see these couples being happily married. It looks as though they’re happy together.” And I agree. And I’m also very happy to be married. I don’t know what I would do without my dear wife.

(01:18) And so I’m going to keep talking about you all. So, one of the commonalities here that we have this evening is — it’s kind of odd, but — each of these couples have the same letter of the alphabet for their last name. That’s kind of odd, isn’t it? Um, so let’s talk about how long you were married. So, Merle and Edith have been married for 53 years.

(01:42) Mark and Ann have been married for 50 years. and Donald and Maryanne, you’re sort of bringing up, you’re the juniors, you’re the young marrieds of the bunch here. You’re at 46 years. So, you combine the couple aggregate age is 149 years of couple experience here. But we’re not done yet. So if you take each person you have a total of 298 years combined of marriage experience.

(02:24) God bless you all. Now I have one question. So the question is for you: How many of these people up here were not teenagers when they got married? What do you think? Somebody take a guess. Somebody just shout out a guess. Yes, back there. They were 18 or 20, somebody says. Okay, yeah. The question is, how many were not teenagers? Zero. Zero?

(02:58) One was not a teenager. The other five were all 19 years old when they got married. And one of them was 19, I think, by three days, right? One week, one one week. Would you do anything differently? I shouldn’t ask that question. You can just hold the answer to that. You may be seated. Thank you very much.

(03:26) Okay, I’ll let them tell you. I knew if we get started talking about the grandchildren at the beginning, we we wouldn’t uh we’d be going a long time. So, I’ll let them tell you all about their grandchildren or their families further as they would wish to. I think one of the reasons I’ve been looking forward to this session so much is because I don’t know either of these couples very well, but I know about them and I know what they stand for. And you know, we all know that the home was under attack right from the beginning of

(03:56) time. And is there ever a time when the home is is under greater attack than right now in our culture and in this time? And I think what I love about this session so much is that here we have living examples of people.

(04:23) We have living examples here of people who through thick and thin have proven that if you take God’s way in marriage, lifelong faithfulness in marriage and in following God’s way for raising godly families. Right here we have living proof that it can be done. Can still be done. Praise God. Amen to that. And in fact, right now I’m inspired to sing that verse. Let’s all stand please and let’s sing the doxology.

(04:49) “Praise God from whom all blessings flow. Praise him all creatures here below. Praise him above ye heavenly host. Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Amen.” You may be seated. You all may be seated finally.

(05:34) So, I’m looking forward to having them recount how God has helped them in their marriages and also how he might be able to help some of us in this room who just need maybe a little bit of fatherly and motherly counsel. And also, I’m hoping that there may be some here who are maybe on the threshold of getting interested in getting married. And I’m sure that these former 19-year-olds up here could help you with making some decisions.

(06:04) So panel outline uh there will be the three brothers, Brother Merle and Brother Mark and Brother Donald will each be giving seven minute presentations. I’m going to be timing them. So they’ll give seven minutes each and all in a line and then they’ll sit down. And at that point, they all expressed a desire to have as much audience engagement as possible.

(06:29) So, I think we’re just going to go right into audience questions. So, you’ve sent some of them in. I have here I’ll be fielding those questions. I have 13 so far. I don’t know if we’ll get through all those, but you’ve got the QR code.

(06:53) Has somebody checked the can in the back for paper questions? There’s a can in the back that you can still put questions in if you want to. If you don’t have access to a phone, just step out and drop a question in. Can’t guarantee that they’ll all be taken. In fact, I think the questions that are coming in now, they’re sort of being curated and and categorized and then I’m going to be sent at least some of the questions.

(07:09) So, we apologize in advance to those that won’t get their specific questions answered, but hopefully at least the category will be touched on. And I forgot to tell you brothers this, but of course we’re going to try to keep this thing rolling so that we can cover as many questions as possible.

(07:26) Now, you’ll have to know that this is not rehearsed. Now, they rehearsed their seven-minute talk, but the questions are coming in and the answers are going to be unscripted.

(07:41) I thought it’d just be best that way, like they’re going to be sitting around the kitchen table talking to this person as though they’re in front of them or in their study or whatever. And these men have all had much experience and their wives have stood by them in through many years of ministry. So I think it’ll be just fine that way. And it’ll be sort of informal. We’ll be dialogue.

(08:03) It’ll be a conversation on how to have how we can have healthy vibrantly healthy marriages. So, as far as the questions, the questions will be kept anonymous, just so you know that. Am I missing anything? Okay. So, at this time, I’m going to take my seat and Brother Merle will take his turn at giving his 7-minute presentation and then we’ll just follow right on through with Mark and Donald.

Merle Burkholder

(08:36) Thank you, Ken. And uh this morning on my talk, I have a book that I wrote called Part of the Family. It’s about God’s foster and adopted children, and I have 20 copies here that I’m giving away. And so, they’re up here on the corner of the stage. You can pick them up after the service this evening.

(08:53) But for the panel, as Ken said, we got married as teenagers and, uh, I didn’t know what I signed up for. I just thought, you get married and you live happily ever after, right? Like that’s the end of the story. And so I didn’t know that this was a lot of work. And probably, I don’t know, somewhere maybe after a year of marriage, uh, Reader’s Digest magazine came and it had a marriage happiness quiz in there.

(09:23) And so you’ve got a score of 1 to 10. So I took the quiz and well I was a 10. I was really happy. And then after some time I asked Edith if she did it and yeah she did. And asked her what her score was and I forget. I think it was like a five or a six. And I was like — wait a minute — like I can’t have a wife who’s five or six like that. No. And then I started to realize oh I better get on the ball here.

(09:47) like there’s things that are happening that I don’t know and I better get with the program and figure out how this works and how do I have a a wife that’s happy? For Edith, her she came into marriage wanting to be a submissive wife and she felt like the way of doing that was not to express her opinion. Just to be quiet and let me do what I was going to do and just try to follow along. But that didn’t work either.

(10:15) And it says that submission is opening up about thoughts and we are helpers. How can we be helpers if we don’t share our thoughts and give input and also just stifling her thoughts led to discouragement and some depression. So yeah, we had to figure out communication and how that works. One of the things that was helpful for us was doing monthly date nights where we would have somebody take care of our children. We’d go for a date night.

(10:49) There was a book we had that was Ten Dates for Mates that gave us some ideas about things we could do on a date night. The other challenge we had was in communication and it felt to Edith like there was never a good time for her to talk to me about the things that she wanted to talk about.

(11:14) Either I was tired or I was busy or yeah, it just it didn’t seem like there was ever a good time especially when our children were young because you know when you have young children you are really busy. There’s just I mean you get up and they’re there waiting for breakfast and then you get through your day and and you know we were talking to our grandchildren the other day and they asked me what’s your favorite word and I said my favorite word is Let’s Eat. And then I asked our daughter what’s your favorite word? She said my favorite word is It’s Bedtime.

(11:49) It’s kind of the way it is when you’re busy with young children. So what we did is um we set up one night a week where we would work on getting the children to bed early, as early as we could. And then I told Edith that night is going to be the right time for us to talk about whatever she wants to talk about.

(12:15) And I will get myself in a frame of mind to be ready to talk about whatever she would like to talk about. I will listen. I will answer her in complete sentences and we will have a real conversation and so I had some weeks, it was a challenge.

(12:40) I had to get myself ready to do that but we were able to engage and keep current on things that were happening in our family, things that we needed to talk about. Another thing that was helpful to us around our 20th wedding anniversary I think we started doing something special every fifth wedding anniversary. So our 20th, 25th, 30th, 35th wedding anniversary, we would go somewhere for a couple of days and do something and we took turns planning it.

(13:03) So the one anniversary I would plan the trip. I would plan what we were going to do and all those things. Then five years later it was her turn and she would choose where we were going, plan the trip and what we were going to do. But part of that was also an evaluation of our marriage and our family. And we would talk about each child.

(13:26) Well, we talk about our marriage, but we would also talk about each child and we would uh say, “Okay, so if this child is eight years old, in five years they’re going to be 13. What are the things that we want to see them develop in this next five-year period? What are things that they should learn? What character qualities do we want to see them develop? Are there things that we want to see them grow in? And and how are we going to get there? How are we going to get that done?” And so we would make a plan for each child for the next five years and for our marriage. “What are

(13:57) things that we want to what age are we going to be five years from now? And what are things that we want to see happen in our marriage and in our lives in the next five years?” And so that was very helpful. There was a time when in one time in in particular where we really got stuck on a decision and we didn’t agree.

(14:21) And there was a decision that needed to be made. Edith had an answer in 30 seconds. It took me about 3 months. She had the right answer. It just took me three months to get there and or maybe more. I’m not sure about how many months but it was around three. And in that time, we had to we had to go get some help.

(14:46) We had to go talk to some people about where we were and how to make that decision. Another important thing is that we’re at the stage now where it’s a lot of fun. Like marriage is fun, but it’s really fun now because we’re at home. Like we can talk anytime. We don’t have to schedule an evening to talk. We’re we’re it’s the two of us.

(15:12) And you know, when your children are gone, it’s kind of like you can wind up looking at each other and saying, “So, who is this person?” And it’s really important, I think, to find a hobby or something that you both enjoy doing that you can do together. For us, it’s it’s birding. We both enjoy birds. And so, when we travel, we go looking for birds and we enjoy birding together.

(15:35) But just having whatever it is, some couple’s bike, some there’s lots of things you can do, but find a hobby that you both enjoy and just have fun doing things together and make sure that when you get to that stage where you’re alone again that you like each other and you know who each other are and you are ready to just have some really good years of having fun together.

Mark Brubaker

It’s true that I love being married.

(16:06) You know, we’ve counseled with several couples before they were married and we would always ask them, “So, what have you found to disagree about? How do you work through your disagreements?” Surprisingly, or maybe unsurprisingly, many of them said, “We haven’t found anything yet.” How many can relate to that? So, you’ve all found something to disagree about, right? That’s understandable.

(16:31) I’d like to talk a little bit about when your personalities are so different. Ann and I are very different people. I’ve always considered myself a rather shy person and she’s not so shy. In her early years of marriage, we would go to church, of course, and I’d be done visiting at church a while before she got done.

(16:58) And she was usually always the last one to the car and and that was fine. But more recently, though, it seemed like that has changed. Seemed like I have conversations I think maybe need to be had and so I’m a little longer at being there and so she’s a little quicker to be done. But the point of that is that over time we have learned to we’ve changed each other a bit. And that’s a good thing.

(17:20) Not to say that anyone was wrong in the beginning, but it’s a good thing when we are so closely united that we do actually change each other. Our personalities can change a bit. So when you look at the differences, you know, sometimes maybe you want to go do something and she wants to just stay home. She has a place for everything and you’re fine with wherever it lands.

(17:50) You account for every dime. She’s just glad at the checkbook balances. Checks don’t bounce. You want to talk about the issue now. He wants to take a walk and just think about it. Or vice versa. You’re morning, she’s evening. You’re conscientious about time. You want to be placed on time.

(18:17) It seems rude to you to to not be there on time because that’s what people are expecting. And she’s not that concerned about it. And she makes sure things are done right before she’s ready to go. There’s differences. She talks about everything. In fact, one time just recently, my daughter was with us there for about a week in her home and and I watched them the whole week and and I was amazed. They talked all the time.

(18:43) So I asked him, I said, “So what how do you how do you find so much to talk about?” My daughter answered quickly, “Oh, that’s easy. You just talk about all whatever whatever you think about, that’s what you talk about.” Just comes out and you wonder if that’s always safe and and a good thing to do.

(19:09) So differences, you know, we we all recognize there are some differences and some of those things need to be worked through, but there are some but so you might think it’s easier maybe wouldn’t it be easier if we were alike? If we just would automatically like you know you probably heard the saying opposites attract. How many of you could agree with that? They do attract someone. And the question is or the problem is sometimes opposites attack.

(19:31) That’s not what we want to do, but to be alike may seem easier. But remember, God made differences. He purposely made differences. He made them for whatever reason, but certainly one of the reasons is that we can help each other. If all the color the flowers were the same color, we’d say that’s pretty and we’d be used to that. But they’re not.

(20:04) And we look at every individual flower and see different colors and different shapes and we’re just amazed and we’re we we stand in awe of what God is what what God has done and the differences that he that he made. So you might like to be alike. So let’s say both of you are extroverts. And if that’s the case, it’s a good possibility that you may get overstimulated and your marriage get neglected. You’re constantly going out, constantly moving out. Whereas, if one’s an introvert, one’s an extrovert, you can help balance each other and keep your marriage alive.

(20:34) The talkative will talk all the time. If you’re both talkative, everybody talks all the time and nobody listens. That’s just some of what happens. You know in proverbs Solomon talks about that iron sharpens iron. Basically what that says is to us is that there is there is differences and the differences have a sharpening power and differences command or demand as we walk together work together and this and we strike each other and their subarks fly. Well, we we walk together until they don’t fly. That’s the idea. And what’s more, I

(21:17) want us I want to encourage you in this while I talk about differences. I want you to know I love being married and we’re different. And I want to encourage you who may be thinking about getting married. It’s a good thing. You don’t have to be afraid. It’s a wonderful thing. So differences they can create both challenges and opportunities.

(21:44) They can create both challenges and opportunities. They can either strengthen or strain your relationship, but they can do one or the other. They can strengthen it. They can add richness to your marriage when they are recognized and valued. They can add richness to your marriage when your differences are recognized and valued.

(22:12) They can complement each other if each feels respected. They can be an advantage. They can be a benefit. Differences will bear fruit for the kingdom as you utilize your two personalities rather than just one. There’s there’s more advantage in two than one. Thank you. Few things to implement. One, understand your personality tendencies before reacting to your partners.

(22:39) Understand who you are before you react react to your partners. Number two, I’ve got to go fast here. Recognize and accept that neither of your personalities is objectively better. Each personality possesses strengths and weaknesses. Learn to validate the other person’s spec perspective. They’re okay

(22:57) That’s a understanding what they’re saying. Validate it. Find the middle ground. Number four, where both that honors both your needs and fosters mutual respect. Find the middle ground. Think about the things that you do agree on. Neither always going along to get along nor insisting you’re right will work long term.

(23:18) Neither always going along to get along will work nor insisting your right will work. Now remember this, God created and loves diversity. God made you with your own unique personality. God put differences for balance and success. His holy spirit is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that you could ask or think.

(23:39) And your goal is to bring him glory with your differences. And one last thing, be thankful. Being thankful means you accept God’s provision of the differences in your spouse. So thank God for your differences. Thank God for your spouse.

Donald Brechbill

Greetings.

(24:17) I will echo what the brethren have already been saying that marriage is really a wonderful relationship and we’ve enjoyed it our all through our married years. One of the things that I would like to share is that we believe marriage to be a microcosm of God’s love for us. Our relationship reflects and it should mimic the the the intense love that God has for us.

(24:44) And we saw that in Ephesians chapter 5. If you were listening to the recital, that chapter is all about the analogy between Christ and the church and marriage. And Paul flows back and forth from between the two so seamlessly that at the end of the chapter, you’re like, was this about marriage or was this about Christ and the church? And it’s because it’s pretty much one of the same.

(25:08) We believe marriage is intended to model New Testament covenant. And that’s different than Old Testament covenant because Old Testament covenant was based on the law and New Testament covenant is based on grace. And one of the reasons that we’ve had such a blessed marriage is that we have learned to extend grace to one another.

(25:32) Grace is allowing the other person to be different like Mark is saying, allowing them to be different allowing them to develop their unique giftedness, their unique abilities, their unique taste, without trying to coerce them into some mold that’s exactly like ours and and delighting in the differences between us and allowing that to be a strength in our marriage.

(25:56) Uh, as you already know, um, Maryanne was quite young whenever we got married. I was a little bit like Merle in that I thought that she would be so flattered to be my wife that, you know, there would be no problems in our relationship.

(26:17) I was quite shocked when after a year or so of courtship, one Sunday night, she handed me a pink slip and she said she really would like to terminate the relationship. I was heartbroken. I think I cried the whole way home and I thought that this relationship was history. And I didn’t know what I had done. I had no idea why she would come to such a conclusion after such a glorious courtship as we were enjoying. And, it didn’t make any sense to me at all.

(26:39) Well, it turned out to be a 42-hour breakup because on Tuesday, this was Sunday night. By Tuesday noon, I get a letter in the mail, and she is all repentant and apologizing and wanting to restore this broken relationship. And I was more than happy to take her back. It took me a long time to figure out what happened. I still uh I’m a little bit perplexed by it, but something to the effect that she was afraid.

(27:05) Uh she was afraid that I would not love her after I learned to know her that I would not love her. And I have tried I have tried hard to imagine not loving her and my brain just won’t go there. I just can’t imagine not loving her because she’s been such a vital part of my life. I again was a bit presumptive about marriage. I just figured it’ll work out.

(27:30) And I guess one of the things I want to share with you in helping other people with marriage struggles, be willing to allow marriage to change you, your relationship. Allow this marriage relationship to change you. Does not our relationship with God change us? And I believe our marriage relationship should be very much the same way.

(28:06) Marriages that are in trouble are marriages where I want to maintain my independent self, do things my way, think my way, and not be willing to mold myself into this marriage relationship and be changed by it. Mary Ann has changed me probably more than any other person. Just living together in that intimate relationship exposes the bad stuff that I am, exposes my weaknesses and and she has had a very sanctifying influence on my life. As a matter of fact, I’ve said it this way.

(28:37) When I walk through those pearly gates, it’s going to be all praise and glory to the Lamb that was slain and thanks to my dear wife who has had such a powerfully sanctifying influence upon my life. And I give her credit for that. I was a rather independent kind of a person the first year of our marriage. I remember one time I came home from the fields and I told my wife that I had been in town this morning and I couldn’t believe she was incredulous that I would go to town without her. And I was like I didn’t think about it. And it was like that that that experience I still remember

(29:18) that because it was such an emotionally loaded experience. And that was when I realized, oh, I’m married. I’m not just free to do my own thing anymore. I’m accountable to her. I need to I need to be communicating with her. I need to be relating to her.

(29:35) So, that was an important part of u uh we are never going to go canoeing on the Susquehanna River again. Our first canoeing experience, her first canoeing experience was on the Susquehanna River. I quickly realized this is not her cup of tea. She did not enjoy it or appreciate it. And that’s something that we’re never going to do again. Maybe the Potomac, but not the Susquehanna.

(29:56) Too much too much current. Modifying your activities, your life to fit. Peter said, “Dwell with her according to knowledge.” That means study her, learn her, adapt your life, to her needs. Is my time up already? One minute? One minute. Okay. What can I say in one minute? Well, just like Merle’s; What? Two minutes.

(30:19) Two minutes. We also value our anniversary. Almost every year since we were married, we have taken a two night, one day, two night time out where we’ve gone to Airbnbs or cabins in the woods or down by the lake or somewhere just to be to be alone together.

(30:50) And we’ve had a lot of very, as a matter of fact, the couple years that we missed that because of pregnancy or because of scheduling or whatever, I just I felt like that was a huge loss for us for that year. We value that. We treasure that. And believe me, there’s lots of good Airbnbs out there. Find time to get away from the family. And you know what? Sometimes some couples worry the children are going to feel neglected. No, the children are going to feel secure knowing that mom and dad are out there strength.

(31:11) At least the older ones will. Oh yeah, the little ones might feel neglected, but they’ll come to understand. It’s going to make them feel secure knowing that mom and dad are happy about their relationship. They’re working on the relationship. They’re making their relationship strong, and that is going to make your home a strong, stable place.

(31:28) Your children are going to actually appreciate that and admire you for that. Now, bringing things bringing things up to date, I will just share this yet. Mary Ann and I are both cancer survivors and there is something about cancer that strips away all of the peripheral stuff and leaves you with that which is essential in your relationship.

(32:00) When you realize that you know this is a temporary relationship, it might not last. All of a sudden you come to realize how much this other person means to you. Sometimes we take our spouse for granted, thinking they’re going to always be there for us and they’re going to always be doing for us and they’re going to always be faithful to us.

(32:16) But there’s nothing like cancer to bring you face to face with the reality that this is a temporal relationship. It is till death do us part. We say that on our wedding day. But whenever you face the reality of that, all of a sudden it takes on a little different dimension. God has graciously spared our lives and granted us healing. But through those hard things, we have found God to be faithful beyond our imagination.

(32:41) Our testimony is if you will allow God to work in your life through marriage, he will bring you to a place of rest and security. And we’re one with Merle and his wife here. We’re empty nesters as of last year in November. And we are thoroughly enjoying our empty nesting experience.

(33:00) It’s like it’s actually almost better than the early years of our marriage because we now we know each other and we are able to enjoy each other thoroughly. How did I do?

Moderator Ken Miller

Thank you, Donald. I hope I hope you don’t mind if I say this. This brother is such a visionary and such a passionate person. He said he’ll be done in four minutes.

(33:21) Actually, that’s what you said on the call the other evening. You actually took eight, but I guess your wife has learned to live with that kind of kind of thing. I want to say a couple things here. One about the questions coming in.

(33:47) So, they they can be still sent and they’re being sorted through and they will be sent. So if you have a response to any of the talks here, I forgot to sort of mention the theme of each talk. Brother Merle’s talk had more to do with practical aspects of marriage and Brother Mark as we remember his talk was more about differences and conflicts in marriage and then Brother Donald was talking mainly about the idea of grace and grace-filled marriages and other experiences etc.

(34:21) So, if you want to send a question to any of these brothers, specifically to them, put down for Merle or Mark or Donald. In a moment, Brother Joel, I think we’ll take a change of position before we get into the questions. And in a moment, Brother Joel, could you be prepared? Just lead us in a short chorus or verse of song or something. I feel led to say something else right here.

(34:46) I know this session and this whole weekend actually is about marriage and family but I think we want to acknowledge that there are singles here in this room who are living lives of singlehood. Some of them have grappled with issues of singlehood and have worked through some of those issues are fully embracing singlehood. And there are some here I am sure and both genders here in all of these categories who are who have the desire to be married.

(35:25) It’s a good desire, God-given desire and but it has not been fulfilled. I have known people who have carried these very deep desires and uh they are not fulfilled. And you could ask the question, why does God not allow, if marriage is such a good thing, why does not everybody have the desire to be this good desire? Why is not everyone’s desire fulfilled? And that I think is a very important question that we shouldn’t skirt around.

(36:01) And my short answer to that question maybe is in two parts. One is that I think we all know if we’ve lived long enough to what and we know what it is to live with some kind of disappointment or unfulfilled desire. We all know what some of those unfulfilled desires and disappointments are. And so we learn by the grace and mercy of God and with the help of the community to lift those desires up to Christ in whom are found in Him are found the answer the conclusion the end of all our desires as the song says, AAll my desires find their longing in

(36:53) you, Lord Jesus” is the meaning of that. Secondly and I was because of a situation I found myself in a few years back. I needed to be separated from my dear wife and family for a period of two years in an unpleasant circumstance. And I found that time uh as I embraced that time of temporary singlehood, I needed to go to 1 Corinthians chapter 7 and discover for myself what it means to be fully devoted to Christ with all my desires and longings of all kinds yielded up to him. And looking back on

(37:34) that life when I know I was living only to please my Lord — at least I’m sure there was selfishness mixed in there too but — I had that focus. Those were the most joyful days of my life and so I share that testimony. I don’t have the answer to that question. Maybe that question will come up. So Brother Joel we will take um a short chorus and then we’ll get right into the questions.

(38:03) Shall we stand for a change of posture?

Song

Join me in singing. “Come, we that love the Lord, and let our joys be known. Come we that love the Lord and let our joys be known. Join in a song with sweet accord. Join in a song with sweet accord. And thus round the throne, and thus surround the throne.

(38:39) We’re marching to Zion. Beautiful, beautiful Zion. We’re marching upward, the beautiful city of God.” You may be seated.

Moderator Ken Miller

Okay, brothers, are we ready? So, you’ve each got your mic. They all work. You want to test them, maybe? Okay. Yep. All right. So, um we’ll get right into some of these questions that have come in.

(39:29) So, I’m just going to go across the circle of men here. So, Brother Merle, yours is the first question, and it’s this one. What is a good method of discipline or training for an 11-year-old who struggles with prompt obedience and responsibility? Many times he truly gets sidetracked and forgets that he was asked to do something.

Merle Burkholder

(39:57) All right. Yeah. I think with an 11-year-old you can have a conversation about life skills and about being able to follow instructions, follow through and do the things that you said yeah you’re going to do. I think being able to ask an 11-year-old, is this something you agree that you would want to work on and kind of having a bit of an understanding? We’re going to work on this over the next number of months.

(40:36) And what would be some things you think would be helpful to help you remember? Also I think that sometimes we can put a lot of, it’s easier for us to catch our children doing the wrong thing and not compliment them when they do the right thing. And children, all of us, we respond to compliments. And so noticing when they do it right and saying, “That was well done. You did well there.

(40:58) That’s what we want.” And then you know a child will kind of perk up and oh okay, and so I think compliments combined with just some discussion can be can be helpful.

Moderator Ken Miller

Any of the other brothers want to add to that?

Donald Brechbill

The only thing that I would add to that is that, be sensitive to the fact I don’t know if this is, I mean some children, especially children who have been adopted, may have actually like ADHD or alcohol syndrome.

(41:29) make sure that there’s not something like that going on in the child’s life before you really start to push the child beyond what they’re capable of.

Mark Brubaker

I might add just a little bit too and that is that, I think the question said that the child truly did forget but it might be good for the parents to look at it and say maybe I need to be a little more sure that they heard exactly what I said. You didn’t just throw it over your shoulder and they kind of halfway caught it. That be clear with them.

Moderator Ken Miller

(42:00) Yes. Okay. I don’t think we want to forget either just the the need sometimes to have some kind of corrective discipline if the child is a little forgetful. Maybe a little little corrective discipline of some kind uh is is necessary. Um okay, moving on to the next question and this is for Merle and Edith.

(42:32) How do I as an outgoing person that processes things in life by talking about them and take life as it comes then move on, walk with my wife who needs time and space to process things? Sound like a personality difference here. Different way of thinking. So she needs more time and space to process things and tends to withdraw when things get hard without missing her heart all the time. Like how can I, yeah.

(42:56) I cannot, I not miss her heart all the time. We love each other and God has done miracles in our life but sometimes it seems like I am not sensitive enough and by the time I am aware that something is not reaching together she has been struggling for quite a while already. Any of the other couples are also welcome to answer.

Merle Burkholder

Yeah, I think that well like we set the time we set a weekly time when we would talk about things and I would get myself ready to engage in the conversation and that was the time when I would listen and I would respond.

(43:34) But I think that also just in communication styles there are differences. Some people process things by talking and other people need to go somewhere and think about it. And I think sometimes if you’re the talkative person, you’re the person who processes things by talking.

(43:59) It’s there are times when you can say “I just want to talk about this and we’re not going to make a decision. We just, you know, I’m just talking” and that can take the pressure off that this isn’t going to be a decision-making conversation. I’m just talking if you have any ideas, but you know, it’s not that it’s not going to lead to a decision.

(44:22) The other thing can be to kind of give a bit of advance notice and say, “Here’s something I’m thinking about and I’d like to talk about it sometime, process it with you and and and maybe set a time when you’re going to do it.” I think also if you’re the person who needs time to think, it’s all right to say, “I don’t want to talk about this right now. I need some time.

(44:48) Can we come back to this and talk about it?” And then I think it’s often good to set a time when you will talk about it because sometimes the person who likes to talk about it, they think, well, we’re we’re never going to come back to it. It’s just going to be left and when is going to be the right time to talk about it? And so, I think sometimes in conversations, it’s good to say, I need time.

(45:12) I’m not ready to talk about it right now, but maybe two days from now or to set a date and a time. That’s, let’s come back to it then and then it won’t get lost and you can have an agreement when you’re going to talk about it.

Moderator Ken Miller

Thank you, brother. I think you covered that one quite well. Yeah. Okay. All right. Here’s one for you, Mark and Ann Brubaker. It’s the mother-in-law question.

(45:37) What kind of relationship should a mother-in-law and daughter-in-law have? How would you approach a distant, hard to understand daughter-in-law? Or you could add son-in-law. Sure.

Mark Brubaker

I suppose it’d probably be true to say that maybe that that relationship started out different than that. Maybe started out better than it became.

(46:03) And so I would say one thing I would suggest is that go back and look at maybe where it was good and what changed over the years or over the months and see what you could do, see what maybe you have done that maybe would have moved the relationship apart, and first of all look at yourself. It it almost, I shouldn’t say always, but it works many times for me to any of us to say first I want to look at myself and see what I maybe did wrong see what I could do different what I could do better and deal with that first and maybe you need to make an apology maybe you need to make some kind of a change but look at yourself first would be the first thing

(46:37) I would say to do with a difficult relationship I guess there’s another thing that could be happening and I don’t know there’s a lot behind that question that we don’t know anything out. But it could be happening that maybe the mother has favored her son and this and the daughter-in-law is a bit jealous of that. That’s a possibility.

(47:02) Again, that’s looking at what I have done or what she has done or the father to cultivate that that that problem between them. Usually, from my experience, it’s usually better to first start off with how I could change instead of talking about how they can change and what they can do different. Maybe that’s what my answer is.

Moderator Ken Miller

That’s such an important question. Anybody else have anything to contribute to that one? Yes, Brother Merle.

Merle Burkholder

(47:23) Yeah, I think it’s good to be aware of the gender roles when with married children because like for our son who is married, his relationship with me didn’t change that much, but his relationship with Edith changed because now there’s another woman in his life that he really needs to pay attention to.

(47:47) And so her role with him changed more than mine did. With our married daughter. Edith’s role with her didn’t change as much as my role did because I need to recognize she has a husband now. And and so yeah, there’s things that I just need to stay out of and I can’t be the the dad in the way I was when she was single. And so there is a gender component to that relationship.

(48:07) Thank you for that. Donald, I have one for you. What is the biblical age requirement to get married? Is there one specified?

Donald Brechbill

Biblical age requirement?

Moderator Ken Miller

That’s what it says. What is the biblical age requirement?

Donald Brechbill

Biblical age requirement. Wow. To get married. The only prohibition that I see in the Bible for marriage is only in the Lord.

(48:33) I don’t know that there is a biblical age requirement. I mean, Jewish weddings, Jewish brides were quite young. And I’m not sure that that needs to be our guideline. Our guideline for today. Biblical age requirement for marriage.

Moderator Ken Miller

I think somebody’s trying to get you in legal trouble or something.

Donald Brechbill

Somebody’s trying to get me in trouble. Biblical age requirement for marriage.

(48:57) Well, my wife was 19 and two days. Three days? Three days. Okay. We were actually planning a, this is not a biblical, I’m off, I’m taking a tangent because I don’t have the answer to that. We were actually planning a June wedding. We thought we would get married in June. Well, her father was a cantaloupe farmer. And he said, “No way. There’s not going to be a June wedding.”

(49:20) He said, “I married your her mother when she was 19 in one day.” He said, “Why don’t you get married 19 in three days?” And so we said, “That sounds like a good idea.” And so that’s what we did. Biblical age requirement for marriage.

Moderator Ken Miller

Okay. It’s a difficult

Donald Brechbill

I’ll defer to the brethren here. Maybe they have a response to that?

Mark Brubaker

Nineteen.

Donald Brechbill

Chapter and verse?

Moderator Ken Miller

(49:46) Okay. While we’re on the subject of age, let’s go ahead and talk about that. So these people here were an average of 19 years old when they got married. Does anybody know what the average age is today? Twenty-eight. 40, 45, 50 years, 50 years later on average basically, based on your average time of being married.

(50:17) So that has shot up by nine years, which is compared to when you got married. Nine years is basically 50% more, 50% older than your baseline. Why is that?

Mark Brubaker

I don’t know, but I’d do it all over again.

Merle Burkholder

I think that in our generation we just, I mean we tended to jump into it without much preparation. We dated before our wedding.

(51:00) We had we met with our bishop, Edith’s bishop, one evening, and that was sort of our marriage prep and we didn’t do a lot of analysis, I think and that was a weakness but I think the pendulum, we have pendulum swings right, and I think it’s swung so far the other way where I think now couples maybe overanalyze, well what about our personalities what about this and what about that and and you and come up with so many hypothetical problems that it starts to look pretty daunting. And I think sometimes it’s good just like, just jump in the deep end and see what happens. But I will say

(51:42) for us, I think that we were, more preparation would have been helpful, we were ill-prepared. I feel I was ill-prepared. And one of the things that happened to us is we got married at 19. When we were 20, a year later, our first child was born and she only lived three days. And I was not prepared to dialogue with a wife about the loss of a child at 20 years old.

(52:20) And we struggled through that. I would hope that if we experienced grief today, we would dialogue about it more and it would be more of a shared thing. But I didn’t want to talk about it because of how I was feeling, ’cause then Edith would cry, and I didn’t know what to do when she would cry, and she didn’t talk about it ’cause she didn’t want me to feel sad.

(52:45) And so, yeah, there were just, more preparation and would have probably been helpful for us.

Moderator Ken Miller

Thank you, brother.

Donald Brechbill

I think there’s a couple of factors that may be playing into this. This is actually a mystery that I’m trying to solve. And any of you older guys here want to give me some input, I would love to hear from you.

(53:06) But there several things to consider. One is what I was talking about uh the impact that immorality has on your future relationships. Think about that, young guys. If you’re serious about wanting to get married, you need to be preparing for that today.

(53:28) Don’t think that you can live loosely and then you want to marry a pure virgin and she’s going to be happy to be married to you and everything’s going to be fine. Yes, God is a redemptive God and every time we talk about that, we need to come back to that fact. However, you need to be saving yourself for your future spouse. I think girls have some fears that maybe our generation didn’t have.

(53:49) No, Mary Ann, as I said, she had some fears to to to overcome, but perhaps that has escalated. The service opportunities are available. Young people don’t need to get married. I can go to Ukraine. I can go to Africa.

(54:06) I can we can go do service projects all over the place, you know, and it’s exciting and we don’t need to be tied down to marriage or childbearing, you know, we can do all kinds of fun stuff, travel the world. So marriage doesn’t look quite as appealing as that. I mean, when we were young, or I was young, I grew up in a very restrictive church. The only fun thing we were allowed to do was get married.

Moderator Ken Miller

Okay, we could dialogue on this one, but we’ve got more questions coming in, brother.

(54:33) Let’s keep going. That was a good way to talk about the age issue. Here’s one for anybody. This is going to have to be a quick one. What is a difficulty you have overcome in early marriage?

Mark Brubaker

Say that again.

Moderator Ken Miller

What is a difficulty you have overcome in early marriage?

Mark Brubaker

How long do you have?

Merle Burkholder

Yeah. Yeah. I think I kind of already shared.

(55:06) But I think our communication and then the loss of our daughter was just a a major event early in our marriage that was challenging.

Moderator Ken Miller

Okay, let’s uh move on from that one a bit. Here’s one for uh you, Brother Mark. How to help your husband who is a very stressful has a very stressful job and deals with a lot of anxiety and depression.

(55:40) How would you advise a wife who comes to you asking for help for her husband? How she should how she should how should she help her husband who has a very stressful job?

Mark Brubaker

Well, not to uh take any responsibility off of the husband if he should be a little more careful with how he lets the job get to him, the anxiety and all that. Not to take anything away from that.

(56:03) There is there is a possibility that would be part of his responsibility. But she the question is how can a wife help her husband. My first thought was try to be careful to not add any add any difficulties or add any stress or anxiety to his life yourself. Try to be supportive. Try to be accommodating all that you can be helpful. Maybe it might also be good for her to express, in other words to take your your mind off of your own problems and help somebody else sometimes is very helpful.

(56:40) So maybe she could just simply express a bit of some of what she’s struggling with a little bit and he could help her and that might be a way that she could also help her husband.

Moderator Ken Miller

Thank you for that. Let’s come back to a couple of uh questions related to singles that have come in. Number the first question is what can singles do to contribute to healthy godly families? So now here’s a single asking what her contribution can be.

(57:16) And I think this is a very important question because it the the reciprocal side of that question is how can singles and families interact together in a good way, in a way that’s good for both of them. Let’s approach it that way.

Donald Brechbill

Well, busy moms are always glad. I’m not sure who you are turning to?

Moderator Ken Miller

Anybody.

Donald Brechbill

Busy moms are always glad for a helping hand.

(57:44) I mean, singles can always go into the home and help these mothers that have multiple children, help them with homeschooling, help them with cleaning, help them with cooking, whatever. In addition to that, I mean, in our our youth have already had, couples nights out, they would collectively gather all the children together from all of the families and babysit them for a whole evening so that so the couples can have a night out and know that their children are being well taken care of.

Moderator Ken Miller

(58:07) Thank you.

Mark Brubaker

I would just say that it blesses me when I see a single sister purposefully, like at church on Sunday afternoon or Sunday after church gathering the young children together, and just being a blessing to them or helping in the home somebody’s home just say calling and saying hey I’ve got a free day today how can I help you today that that’s a blessing they could be be a blessing that way.

Moderator Ken Miller

Okay so so far we’re working on the sort of the single-facing side of that question like how can I help the families in the church? Now what about the other side of that question? How can

(58:47) families help support single people in some of their loneliness and desires?

Merle Burkholder

We raised our family in a mission setting.

(59:14) So there were single adults in the mission on staff which was a tremendous blessing. Our children had great role models with the single staff adults. I had, I’m not sure, five or six single ladies that worked in the office that I was supervising and we had them at our house once a week for a bit of a Bible study and a breakfast and yeah, it gave them a connection with us as a family and it also gave Edith a relationship with the ladies that I was working with and it was great for our children. So, but and I think the single ladies really appreciated getting into

(1:00:00) our home and just having that weekly time together. So, it was kind of a mutual of mutual benefit.

Moderator Ken Miller

I’m going to dive in if I can. So, Linda and I uh we some of our most enjoyable hosting has been we did a thing called Singles 25, and we set up a WhatsApp group and invited had you had to be 25 and older to get invited to our house on a Tuesday evening, and then so I think a lot of times married folks and families forget that singles have a life too and they got to come home from work

(1:00:31) and cook a meal and then maybe go somewhere and it can just be exhausting uh to try to handle all that household duties etc. So, the deal was you come, you can sit at the table, grab a bite and go if you got responsibilities or you can stay and visit a while. And we really had some, I guess we need to get that started back up again, dear.

(1:00:53) So, things like that.

Merle Burkholder

Also, I think it’s good for us as married couples to remember like Donald was saying, marriage is a temporary relationship and statistically 50% of us are going to be single again at some point in our lives. And so yeah, it’s not, yeah, to be secure.

(1:01:19) I mean, we really enjoy our marriages, but to be secure enough in our relationship with Christ that when the time comes that one of us is single, that that’s not going to it’s devastate us, right?

Moderator Ken Miller

I guess it’s in reality some of you are thinking quite seriously about those things. Yes. Okay. We are too actually at times. All right. So, moving on.
(1:01:45) There was another question as it relates to single person. Is it proper for a single lady, and I’m going to direct this um to you brother Merle since it has to do with adoption. Is it proper for a single lady to adopt or foster? Does God provide the father figure for those needy children? Please share your thoughts in biblical perspective. Yeah.

Merle Burkholder

(1:02:12) Yeah. We’ve known a couple of single ladies that have um adopted and I think if there’s extended family that is supportive and she has brothers that are willing to get involved as a male role model for a child. I think it it can work. I’m not I don’t see it as a negative thing.

(1:02:48) I do think making sure you have a supportive family and that there are men that are willing to get engaged with with the child I think is is important.

Moderator Ken Miller

Any of the rest of you have anything to say about that? Okay, here’s one. Most marriages have the appearance of health from the outside. This is for all the panelists. But later you learned that things weren’t as they appeared.

(1:03:22) Based on your experience, what percent of Anabaptist marriages would you say are vibrant? What percent are okay? And what percent are fairly unhealthy? That’ll be a subjective answer. Of course.

Donald Brechbill

Very subjective. I’m happy to report that in our church I see a lot of happy marriages and I think it has a lot to do with one the teaching that is given.

(1:04:01) I think teaching does impact the practice and how we live. It also I believe it also is impacted by the spirit, the atmosphere, the spirit of like the church setting if we’re if you’re in a church setting where marriage is not held up as a covenant relationship till death do us part. If once once provision is made for separation and marriage breakdown, it happens.

(1:04:33) If you’re go if we’re going to allow it, it’s going to happen. Along with that, what kind of level of maturity and fight do we have in the hearts of the husbands? Are they being faithful? Are they living uprightly? Are they loving their wives the way they should? There’s a lot of factors that enter in and I don’t know, I mean you try to put, I probably in every church you’re going to find difficult marriages for different reasons, but I would say in our Anabaptist community I mean by and large we have a

(1:05:08) lot of happy marriages. We do have a lot of happy marriages a lot of strong marriages.

Moderator Ken Miller

Would you say there’s 50% are happy?

Donald Brechbill

Oh my, I don’t like putting, I would hope it’s higher than that I would certainly hope so.

Mark Brubaker

It might depend it might depend on the day. I’ll agree with Brother Donald that that’s a bit subjective as far as, I don’t know.

(1:05:40) I mean, you know, I would say this though that that there are some hurts in marriages that maybe aren’t seen too well. And just to be I don’t know how to say this, but just to be sensitive to that. You know, when some if you if your marriage is hurting a bit, for somebody to maybe even understand a bit that it’s hurting, that can be a that can be a help just simply a support that we know you’re going through some things and and we’re praying for you, whatever, but just to acknowledge it and and and be sensitive to the hurt that might be there.

Moderator Ken Miller

(1:06:18) Maybe another way to ask that question would be at any one time, how many Anabaptist marriages are in these categories? Because marriages go through seasons like you go through seasons when you struggle a bit and you gain some depth in your marriage. And looking back now, you say, well, you’re pretty immature back then. At the time, you thought it was pretty good.

(1:06:38) So, it is a bit subjective also based on like the journey. So, do you have anything more to say on that, Merle, from your perspective? Okay. All right. Now, here’s Brother Joel, maybe we’ll change position and have another course here in just a bit. Maybe after this question here.

(1:07:00) There’s actually two related questions and they have to do with I guess the idea of correction or training. What do you think about the idea of breaking your child’s will in order to train them? And the related question is, are there specific reasons for spanking and at what age is it appropriate? And along with that question, what do you think of gentle parenting?

Donald Brechbill

The term breaking the child’s will is a bit harsh.

(1:07:44) Shaping the child’s will would probably be a little bit more what I would want to talk about because we don’t want the child to be, we’ve used that terminology in our circles I think so we we all understand what what it means but it can be misunderstood. Now the question was, what do we think about shaping, well, here’s what we have found, and correct me if wrong, spanking, corporal punishment, if it is properly administered early on, and I’m talking the years four, five, preschool years, if it is properly administered, it doesn’t have to happen I mean if if you’re beating your

(1:08:30) child and your child is 8, 9, 10 and they’re not responding to corporal punishment probably something was lacking early on. We have found corporal punishment to be most effective in the preschool years. And if the child learns to obey during those years, then it only it shouldn’t be needful as they grow. Shouldn’t be, maybe an occasional reminder.

(1:09:02) Now if I could just say a word about that neuroscience is coming up with some amazing things, and one of the things that they discover is we we talk about neurological pathways which are developed, and there are four things that develop neurological pathways. One of them is uh physical pain, physical pleasure, emotional pain and emotional pleasure. Well, what is a spanking? It is physical pain.

(1:09:27) And there was a question about how what do you do with a child that can’t remember? Well, physical pain has a way of jarring the memory and impressing something deeply into the memory of the child. And and again, we’re not promoting child abuse or abusive behavior. However, the Bible talks about spanking and it does have that effect of helping the child to remember and shaping the child’s will going forward. You talked about…

Moderator Ken Miller

(1:10:01) Thank you, brother. How’s that?

Donald Brechbill

You asked about gentle parenting. I’m sorry that would take an hour. I’m not really really prepared to.

Moderator Ken Miller

I take it you think it’s a complicated subject. So, by the way, you reminded me just now that, um, these dear couples have all consented if someone has additional question or would like to counsel with one or more.

(1:10:25) Well, I should, one of the couples, better stick to one this evening. They are going to be available to talk to you after this session. It’ll mean skipping your prayer group, but there may be somebody here who’d like to talk. They’ll just be, probably I think, we’ll probably have one couple on each of these benches up here afterwards. So, Brother Donnie, you could maybe expound a little more then if somebody has a question. But I get it. All right.

(1:10:48) Brother Merle, do you have something?

Merle Burkholder

Yeah, just to add to that, there are two always questions that children have and they should have opposite answers. The first always question is, am I always loved? And the answer to that question should always be yes. The second always question is can I always have my own way and the answer to that question should be no, and so just something about a child recognizing that they are under authority is important, it’s a life skill and so I think we can help children to recognize that they are under authority and that means that they can’t always have their own way sometimes they can

(1:11:28) and I think if like in anything if we only have one tool in our tool toolbox, we overuse it. And if corporal punishment is the only tool we have, it’s not healthy. And we, being foster parents with our foster children, we, could not use corporal punishment. And I found that we could still win all the arguments.

(1:11:58) It just took a lot longer and took a lot more effort. But with with persistence and commitment, we could still get to where we needed to be. But sometimes it was just like especially as Donald’s saying with a preschooler, if you could just use corporate punishment, it would have been a lot faster.

Donald Brechbill

Ken, uh, back to gentle parenting.

(1:12:30) Um, just to so that I’m not flooded with people up here after it’s over, I have an excellent article on gentle parenting. It’s called The Cruelty of Gentle Parenting and I would be happy to send that to anybody. If I had your email address, I would be happy to send that to you. It’s excellent an excellent perspective of gentle parenting.

Moderator Ken Miller

Could you clarify for me what you actually think about it with that article? No, I’m sorry. You gave the you gave the the title. I think uh gives your perspective. Thank you. All right.

(1:12:52) So, brother Joel, would you come up and let me give you the question we’ll address after the chorus is this question. What is the best way to meet a girl? Should I use a dating site? What would be the proper way to ask a girl out? And how should the first date go? We’ll take that question after the chorus, brother.

Song

(1:13:23) We’ll keep this chorus short because that’s a good question. I’m sure you just about can’t wait. To God be the glory. Great things he hath done. “To God be the glory. Great things he hath done. So loved he the world that He gave us His Son. Who yielded his life and atonement for sin and open the life gate that all may go in. Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord.

(1:14:03) Let the earth hear his voice. Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Let the people rejoice. Father Jesus and give him the glory. Great things he hath done.” You may be seated.

Moderator Ken Miller

Thank you brother. Thank you brother. Okay, coming back to this question. And this I maybe I’ll just go around the the arc here.

(1:14:51) What is the best way to meet a girl? Should I use a dating site? What would be the proper way to ask a girl out? And how should the first date go? Brother Merle, if you want to just take one of those questions, that’s fine.

Merle Burkholder

Thank you. I saw a study that was done on how couples met a generation ago and how they meet now and a generation ago most couples met through a common acquaintance or a family connection.

(1:15:26) Today it’s a lot more through social media and online and I don’t know that there’s a right or a wrong way but I think that being sure that you have an opportunity to really learn to know a person and that you know that at least there’s some commonality in your values and belief systems and that you’re on the same page and a lot of things is really helpful and however that happens I think is fine.

Mark Brubaker

(1:16:03) I would suggest that the way it should go would be, it’s not just all fun and games but neither is it total seriousness. They need to get to know each other a bit, to recognize that the purpose of the dating or the purpose of the courtship, however you want to say it, the purpose of that is to get to know one another to move on into marriage. It’s not a game we play.

(1:16:38) Brother Denny used to say, you don’t know this young lady may be somebody else’s wife. So you need to be careful how you treat her. In other words, you want to treat her with respect. As far as how they should meet each other, I agree with Brother Merle. It seems like it’s a good thing. Well, I’ll go to the dating site question. The dating site question, I’ve seen it happen where a couple met there and they got married and they’re happily married.

(1:17:08) I’ve seen it happen. But it is I, if I could dare say this, it is so very dangerous. There are, I understand, I’ve never been on them actually, but I understand there are there are people, men and women out there who are just trying to take advantage of you and you may be seeing a picture of them. You may not be seeing a picture of them.

(1:17:31) They may be who knows who they are. So, it’s just I would just say, “Oh, I think there’s a better way to find a a spouse than to go to something like that.” And and I guess I’d suggest a better way being as Brother Merle said, know them personally or get to know them who they are, what their background is, what their family is, what they believe. You can kind of learn those kind of things before you actually begin a courtship, which is wisdom.

Moderator Ken Miller

(1:17:59) Thank you, Brother Donald. What would be the proper way to ask a girl out? How did you ask Mary Ann out?

Donald Brechbill

The proper way? I did it the improper way. I wrote a letter directly to her. I did not contact her father in advance and I regret that. I really do. I wish I.

Moderator Ken Miller

What did he say about that?

But we were, it was kind of not the thing to do back then. Or maybe it was and I wasn’t willing to do it.

(1:18:25) I don’t I don’t know. But I wrote directly to her and she wrote back and said that her our feelings are mutual. And I wasn’t sure what that word meant. I looked it up in the dictionary ’cause I didn’t want to get it wrong. So, I sent her a letter. Anymore, I mean, you could text, you could email, you could WhatsApp. There’s all kinds of ways to contact her father.

(1:18:52) Yeah, I don’t know if there’s a right and a wrong way. I mean, God uses all kinds of ways to relate to us, connect. We all have a different testimony the way God spoke to us and called us. I would echo Mark’s concern about dating sites. One of the snares of social media is that you can present a really really good picture of yourself.

(1:19:13) You can really make yourself look good on the on the internet or on a social media site. Matter of fact, that’s what happens all the time. That’s why it’s so dangerous. It’s just there. It’s so deceptive really. But if that’s a way I mean, I realize I’m old-fashioned.

(1:19:30) And I’m told that young people all know each other anymore. I mean denominational barriers don’t mean a thing anymore. They all connect, you know, online. I don’t know how they do it or what what all transpires, but I’m told that young people all know each other. And there has been like an amalgamation of youth culture. We see that. Am I answering the question?

Moderator Ken Miller

Yes. Thank you.

(1:19:52) Thank you. Okay. There was another one here. This one’s a little risky to ask and if you would wish to defer that’s fine. Here it is. It’s it’s delicate. After getting married, is it a good idea to wait a few months or a year to have children to gain some stability, or should we just dive in?

Mark Brubaker

I’ll stick my neck out.

(1:20:30) Children are a blessing from the Lord. We don’t doubt that. We also realize that there are some, there could be situations where it might be good to be careful how soon you have children. There just could be relationship problems, could be physical problems, health problems.

(1:20:55) There could be a time when it’s right to to exercise some wisdom in when you might have a child.

Donald Brechbill

That may be, really I think it’s kind of up to the couple. That’s a pretty personal question. There there are advantages of having some time to learn to know each other and to make some adjustments in your marriage before children enter the scene.

(1:21:28) However children are an heritage of the Lord, and we should not put that off indefinitely. Mary Ann and I thought we were going to wait a while to have children, but three months into our — Am I allowed to say this? — Three months into our marriage, she was crying because she wasn’t getting pregnant. And I realized that this mothering instinct is a very very powerful thing.

(1:21:48) And, I feel blessed that I married a woman who loves children and wanted to have a family.

Moderator Ken Miller

May I speak? Um, if we were to get married again, we would not we would not advise delay. That’s just my personal opinion. And as you said, Brother Donnie, children are heritage of the Lord. And you think of those young Jewish brides, uh, so young, young enough almost to be children.

(1:22:25) and the fact that we’re living in we all see what population is doing. The population trends are declining — I should say the birth rates, I meant to say — are declining. So I don’t know, I will stick my neck out and say to the next generation, get married young and have big families. We got to do something about this population decline. [Applause]

(1:22:55) Is that okay if I said that? Okay. For a family who has come from a non-Mennonite background with parents who’ve been married prior to conversion and have had a rocky hard marriage, how can they change or fix the scars that came prior to marriage? That’s a really hard one. This is a person who’s struggling, who’s come from a broken home, or from a rocky marriage, for a family who has come from a non-Mennonite background with parents who’ve been married prior to our conversion.

(1:23:45) I’m sorry. And have had a rocky hard marriage. How can they change fix the scars that came prior to marriage? I’m sorry. This is the couple itself. I misunderstood it. They were married prior to conversion and they they had a rocky road. Now they’re converted. How can they deal with the past is the question.

(1:24:18) That’s a hard one.

Donald Brechbill

Well, one of the things that I would comment is that the I continually stand amazed at the the redemptive ability that God has. I mean, He has taken the worst of situations and turned it into something that is for his glory. I think the first thing you need to believe is that God is able he is able to take your marriage situation from where it is and he’s able to to make that into, Brother Grant’s life witness is one of those redemption stories. He’s able to take the worst of scenarios and turn it into something that is for

(1:25:09) His glory. Now you may need some help along the way. I would encourage you to find a mentor, a someone who you trust and someone whom you respect that you would be willing to sit down with them as a couple and talk, just explain your struggles, explain your differences, what you’re up against, and then open your heart up to the spirit of God to change you.

(1:25:38) Because if you’re having a rocky marriage, somebody’s going to have to change.

Moderator Ken Miller

Find somebody to walk with you. Find somebody strong. Brother, were you going to say something?

Merle Burkholder

Yeah. I would say I think Donald’s comments in the beginning about uh grace, the grace covenant and um extending grace. There are things in that kind of situation. There are things that have already happened that you can’t go back and change.

(1:26:11) and you won’t forget them, but grace can cover over a multitude of sins and and love covers over a multitude of sins. And so extending grace to each other and being able to recognize we made a new start. The old things are passed away. Things have become new and we are on a new path now. And yeah, there can be healing for for those things.

Moderator Ken Miller

(1:26:42) Okay, I think it’s about time we wrap this up and uh we have one more question has to do with communication and then we’ll each give you 30 seconds or so, a minute or so to wrap up your comments. So, this is actually for Merle and Edith, but the rest of you can contribute also. How do you get good at communicating with your spouse?

Merle Burkholder

Yeah, it’s practice taking time.

(1:27:25) I think also like for us I think in those those evaluation moments and how are we doing and how can we improve but I think it just takes practice and it just takes time to to find out what works and to do what works and you know there are times when, being a man, I don’t really know what Edith wants, and I have to ask her.

(1:27:59) Because I don’t know. I want to do what she what’s going to please her because I’ve learned that when she’s smiling, it means I’m happy. And so, but I don’t always know how to do that or how to get it done. And so, sometimes I have to ask. And also, we men are pretty simple creatures.

(1:28:25) If you feed us and give us a few compliments, we’ll do amazing things for you. And so, it’s, yeah, it’s not rocket science. We want to please you, believe it or not. So tell us when we did well and we’ll repeat it. We’ll do it again.

Mark Brubaker

Merle. Amen. Brother Merle, I hear you. That’s true. I would I would just add this to in a principle of communication is to listen to hear, not to respond.

(1:28:59) Listen to hear what the other one’s saying. Don’t listen so you have something to say when you’re done. Listen to hear, not to respond.

Donald Brechbill

Could I just share one thing? We we had that question a while back of the guy who was frustrated because he was processing things and his wife was withdrawing. Now that was an interesting scenario because it’s kind of inverse from what we usually encounter.

(1:29:24) One of the things that we’ve observed in our marriage and in other marriages is that women tend to process things verbally and we men think they’re trying to run the show and make us, you know, do what they want them they want us to do. No, no, no.

(1:29:48) They’re process they’re in a process of making a decision. They they they do it verbally. Whereas we men, we don’t talk until we are convinced this is what we want to do. Okay? We process things mentally. And when we start talking, we have our mind made up. And I have a feeling that guy who was doing all that talking. He wasn’t processing.

(1:30:07) He was trying to convince her that he was right. I’m guessing. Now, forgive me if I’m wrong, but I’m guessing that. And that’s probably why she withdrew because it’s like this guy already made the decision and he’s trying to get me on board with it and he won’t care what I think. Okay.

(1:30:25) So, like Mark said, I believe, listen, listen to her. Allow her to process things verbally and when she lands on your plate, jump on board.

Moderator Ken Miller

Amen. Good advice. Okay, your sort of 30 second one minute closing comment. Brother Merle, we’ll just go right around.

Merle Burkholder

Okay. Well, I think it’s good to recognize that life has its stages and midlife can be a challenging time of life.

(1:31:10) And both men and women go through changes just in hormonal changes and just this the balance shifts and things change and just you think you have this thing figured out and then midlife hits and suddenly things are are are different. And I think that as um when you get past midlife, I think we as men become less driven and women become more um assertive and and we become more equal uh after midlife and it’s a beautiful thing and I just uh just encourage you to enjoy the stage you’re at.

(1:31:51) Every stage has just some real joys. But it changes and it’s it’s a process over time and go with the flow and learn how to do it well and in every stage.

Mark Brubaker

Love to be married. Learn to love to be married. And that means that we are both coming towards each other. We’re not trying to get them convinced of one thing so they’ll do what we want to do.

(1:32:32) But we’re both coming towards each other. We’re willing to work with each other. Granted, okay, the husband is going to make the final decision. That’s one thing I’ve tried to give to my wife as we walk through life. We’ve tried to say, “Listen, let’s talk about it. And I want to hear your heart.

(1:32:48) I want to hear your opinion. What do you think? I can share mine.” And then whatever the decision is, I take responsibility for that decision. Even if it’s what she wanted, I say, “Okay, let’s do it that way.” I’d like to give her the the confidence and the reassurance that I am leading and taking responsibility for whatever that decision is.

(1:33:12) It doesn’t always have to be your way, but I’m suggesting and encouraging, take responsibility as you make decisions in life together. Husbands, take your responsibility. And I’ll say this much more and then I’ll be done. And and this isn’t a negative thing. It’s just simply something to keep in mind. Husbands, you married her. Take care of her.

Donald Brechbill

(1:33:48) I guess my closing comment would be this that we need to realize that Satan hates marriages. Satan hates happy marriages. And so realize that you in your marriage you are doing spiritual warfare. And the enemy is not your spouse.

(1:34:12) The enemy is the enemy, the destroyer, Apollyon, the one who steals, kills, steals, and destroys. He’s out to kill, steal, and destroy your marriage. So by maintaining your relationship with God, by praying for each other, by praying together, by seeking God together, by encouraging one another spiritually, we do spiritual warfare as a team against the enemy of our marriage. Realize that you’re doing spiritual warfare in the context of your marriage.

(1:34:43) And so when there’s conflict arising, differences of misunderstandings, all these things are the kinds of things that Satan uses to try to drive a wedge between you. That’s what he’s trying to do. He’s trying to drive it a wedge between you. But purpose to being intimate spiritually, emotionally, and physically intimate. Purpose to maintaining that.

(1:35:04) On our wedding night, Mary Ann and I when we were finally able to be alone together and we entered our home together for the first time, one of the first things that we did when we got inside our home was we dropped down onto our knees and we begged God to be a part of our marriage relationship and to bless our marriage relationship.

(1:35:36) And I feel like that was one of the most important things that we could have done, especially at that point in our relationship. Giving God the first fruits of our love and inviting him into our home and into our marriage. And God bless you as you seek God together.